KR

PS "The believer is sweet and loves sweet." Declared a fabrication by: - Ibn 'l-Jawzi - Dhahabi - Ibn 'l-Qayyim - Ibn Hajar - Saghani - Sakhawi - Ibn Arraq - Ajluni - Shawkani - Tahir Gujarati - Albani

But it gets better: https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/crow-halal-or-haram.11815/ Syed Ahmed, all my questions are genuine. Alhamdulillah I am sunni and consider the Deobandis as non-muslim. Please maintain adab and do mail me privately if you have any problems with me. I am patient, others may not be. JazakAllah Basically, I am a patient Takfiri, so please maintain decorum with me.

Some based arguments right here on the highly important "halwey v kawwey" issue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxheJONUtqY

One of my Syrian friends said that I have not found anyone more sectarian than the Salafis/Wahhabis and Barelwis. I think there is much truth to that, as you find that the founders of both denominations were Takfiris and that attitude seems to trickle down among the followers.

Pir Karam Shah case is fascinating.  Barelwis so get their knickers in a twist about it. Tabassum Shah Bukhari argues against him for going against the takfir of Husam ul Haramayn. But it all falls on deaf ears, as Pir Karam Shah saheb was too much of a big shot. Thus Barelwis assert his supposed retraction and the likes of Hashmi Miya continues to big him up and attend their seminars for mehfils!

Btw there is a difference between Barelwi takfir of Deobandis and Deobandi Takfir of Barelwis: Barelwi takfir comes from the founder of the maslak whilst you find no such takfir from the founders of Maslak of Deoband. The takfir by Deobandis of Barelwis can be found among some contemporary Deobandi Ulama like Mufti Mahmud Hasan Gangohi and Moulana Sarfaraz, as quoted above. However, if you look at the hierarchy of Akabir as articulated by Allamah Khalid Mahmud and Mufti Rafi', then they do not even feature in it! And to my knowledge, none of Akabir that feature within their hiearachies have done takfir of Barelwis. Hence, takfir of Barelwis among Deobandis continues to be a fringe phenomenon and has no such sway among the masses that Barelwi takfir of Deobandis does.

Chandpuri is incorrect. Khan Sahib should have accepted he was unqualified to speak on these matters and said, "Allahu A'lam".

Murtaza Hasan Chandpuri is a disciple of Ashraf Ali Thanwi. Murtaza Hasan Chandpuri writes in his book, 'Ashaddul azaab' regarding the takfeer of Imam Ahmad Rida Khan on the 4 Deobandi scholars...“If Khan Sahib (Imam Ahmad Rida Khan) was convinced that the scholars of deoband against whom he issued the fatwa of Kufr, really fell into Kufr, then it was compulsory (Fard) upon Khan sahib to do takfeer upon these deobandi scholars and if he would have not done this, he would have become a kafir himself”. - Ashaddul azaab, page 13.

I will see you one batil takfir and raise you another. Let's have a batil-takfir-off.

Sarfraz Khan Safdar, who is referred to as the 'Imam of the Ahlus Sunnah' by the Deobandi sect says, all Barelwi Ulema are 'Pure Kafirs and Mushriks'. The Deobandi sect often accuse Sunni Ulema of being Takfeeri, but forget what their own scholars have said. 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

And for the record, I have read the statements in question and the takfir is obviously baseless. However, even if we suppose for the sake of argument the takfir is sound, the idea that objecting to takfir of the individual scholars concerned being kufr is just idiocy that shows an utter lack of Fiqh

FYI: this is what passes for moderation in Brelvi circles.

Do 'Barelvis' Takfir ALL Deobandis? Mufti Sharif Ul Haq Amjadi says, 'Those people who are unaware of the statements of their elders, we do not declare them Kafir. The fatwa of kufr only applies to those people who are well aware of the statements of the elders, those statements which disrespect the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم or have any form of kufr in them. Those who know of these kufr statements and they still believe the elders to be their leaders and religious guides will fall into kufr'. Reference - Volume 3 of Fatawa Sharih Bukhari, page 239.

FALSE TAKFIR IS A MAJOR SIN من قذف مؤمنا بكفر فهو كقتله "Whoever accuses a believer of kufr, it is like murdering him" (Bukhari and Muslim) من قال لأخيه يا كافر فقد باء بها أحدهما، إن كان كما قال وإلا رجعت عليه "When any man calls his brother a kafir, the burden is on one of them. Either he is as he said, otherwise (the sin) returns on him." (Bukhari, Muslim) Takfir is not a matter in which you get rewarded for mistaken ijtihad. At most, it can be hoped that a scholar who has made mistaken takfir may he forgiven if he was not grossly negligent in his practice of takfir. Otherwise, he is guilty of a grievous and major sin. This is for false takfir of a single Muslim. What then of those who engage in mass takfir? The fact that such mistakes exist in the turath and have grown over time or that you are doing naql from a book of Fiqh is not an excuse. It will not save you from accountability on the Day of Judgment.

Pretty crazy fatwa... but I wonder how Ala Hazrat would feel about wearing shirts with names of Deobandi scholars on them? 🤔

Brelvis are eerily similar to Wahhabis. When they're on the defensive, the ta'wilat come out to give a false narrative about how moderate they are in takfir and cry about how they're so maligned and misrepresented. When they have the upper hand, they make takfir of everyone who opposes them and even everyone who agrees with them but not hard enough.